nethdugan:
nleseul replied to your post: Things that important to know:
I’m curious what makes Lenin not a socialist. He pretty certainly thought of himself as such—unlike Hitler, who pretty much hated socialism. Marxist-Leninist statism certainly isn’t the only kind of socialism, but it is socialism, as far as I know.
Lenin was a communist. Not actually the same thing.
Reblogging instead of replying so I can have more than 250 characters to work with here.
If you’re looking at the terms from a Marxist framework—which Lenin was—they kind of are. Marx did make a conceptual distinction, but they were certainly two linked parts of the same overall historical process.
Basically, for Marx, socialism is a system in which the means of production have been reclaimed from the capitalist class, are available to the working class, and there is a system in place to fairly distribute the products of those means to workers in proportion to the amount of labor they contribute to their operation. Socialism isn’t seen as a goal in itself, but as the first step towards communism, which is the ultimate end of history for Marx. It is seen as achievable with current production technology, requiring nothing more than the awakening of the working class.
Communism, on the other hand, is what socialism will become after improvements in the technology of production have made it possible to dispense with the system for fair distribution. Communism is achieved when production is so efficient that everyone is able to work as little or as much as they want, and will still be able to take all they desire from the overall social product. It’s basically socialism plus a post-scarcity economy.
So, within those definitions, Lenin was pretty clearly both a socialist and a communist since, as a Marxist, that’s the route he advocated history taking for Russia. Now, of course, the actual Marxist-Leninist orthodoxy that became the official doctrine of the Soviet state under Stalin didn’t do particularly well with that goal, but that doesn’t invalidate the fact that Lenin’s stated ideology was both socialist and communist in the Marxist framework.
Now, granted, there are plenty of ways to think about both concepts outside of Marxism. Still, I’m not aware of any frameworks that would fundamentally invalidate Lenin’s identity as a socialist. The best non-Marxist discussion of both concepts I know of is from An Anarchist FAQ, which considers socialism to be any system in which workers have the political and economic power to produce and distribute goods. (Hence, all anarchists are socialists under its definition.) In its discussion of types of anarchism, it goes on to explain communism as a type of non-individualist and non-market anarchism which prioritizes the abolition of money, but all the differences among threads of anarchist thought it talks about there sound enough like arbitrary hair-splitting, so I don’t know how meaningful that definition really is anyway.
Anyway, if you take the anarchist definition of socialism, I guess you could argue that Lenin wasn’t really a socialist because he wanted there to be a state which would act as an intermediary between workers and the means of production (which worked out so very well for Russia!). I don’t really see the point of such a distinction, though. He certainly thought of himself as a socialist, and half his writings talk about socialism, so trying to claim after the fact that he wasn’t a real socialist seems pointlessly revisionist.